I read the Pagan thread and it's very good . I want to include a piece here : from " Way of the Shaman " by M. Harner
In shamanism there is ultimately no distinction between helping others and helping yourself. By helping others shamanically , one becomes more powerful , self-fulfilled and joyous. Shamanism goes far beyond a primarily self-concerned transcendence of ordinary reality . It is a transcendence for a broader purpose , the helping of humankind . The enlightenment of shamanism is the ability to light up what others perceive as darkness , and thereby to SEE and journey on behalf of a humanity that is perilously close to losing its spiritual connectedness with all its relatives , the plants and animals of this good Earth.
" Shamanizing , you find your way by yourself"- Siberian Samoyed shaman. Thank you ! -Mark

Wow, Mark... that's good. Very noble! It must be a good book. Have you read it?

I really don't know a lot about Shamanism. What is it exactly? How is it tied in with animal spirits/totems? Is a medicine man the same as a shaman? What does a shaman do for you?

Curious Kell =)

Mark, thanks for posting the quote. It really sums up the need for mankind to begin to wake up on a very large scale, or all of us will pay the price. It is getting to the point where it is becoming an emergency of unfathomable proportions.

I have seen this book in the bookstores, and have thought of buying it. Without reverence for the Earth and her creatures, we can't expect those entities to thrive. And, without them, mankind is doomed.

I am not an expert on shamanism, but I do know enough to see that it is very close to my own beliefs about helping others, and about providing the kind of care and guardianship to the Earth and her splendid creatures that they deserve. Much of mankind is failing miserably here. Perhaps you will be able to teach us some new things about shamanism that will help each of us in our journey.

Blessings,

azspirit =)

[ April 18, 2002: Message edited by: azspirit ]

Thanks Mark.
I agree wholeheartedly with that philosophy. Any faith system that understands that we are all part of the whole has a lot going for it. I believe one of the things we are here for is to serve. Serve the ALL in whatever little or big ways we can.

First and foremost I wish you all well ! I can tell you what I've read and heard and what I know from experience , Kell - since you asked what is shamanism , the best description comes from what a shaman does - he or she journeys into the unknown while awake , at will , sometimes with the help of a drum or rattles ( but not necessarily ) , to get info about things that help the clan or another person. There are shamanic animal spirits ( really ! ) that help one in his or her quest . Opinions vary about whether one should tell others about his animal spirit guides , what animals he has , etc. but I don't see any harm in doing just that ... it's like telling about dreams- you wouldn't just walk up to a stranger and start talking about your dream you had , but better to meet with those who will respect your dream , and this is very important , then you can share. The Sioux and other plains Indians I've read , thought it o.k. to talk about animal spirit guides and guardians - in fact it was thought that everybody HAD animal guides that warned them of danger and helped them live , because if somebody didn't have one he would " never have survived childhood". The reason I was so interested in Luna's white tiger picture , is that I have a tiger animal spirit guide (s) . And that story can wait. ><><<=o=>><><>< -Mark

Thanks Mark! It's basically what I thought it was, but thank you for expanding on it for me. =) I agree with you that animal guides (& dreams!) are something what should be shared, if you as an individual choose to.

How does one know or find out what animal(s) their guides are? I've heard different theories, but I'm not sure about any of them!

Kell

[ April 21, 2002: Message edited by: KellKell ]

KellKell says , " How does one know or find out what animal (s) their guides are ? "
usually one asks to meet them , and then in dream they come and introduce themselves ... or you might know already and just need a little nudge ...anyway , I went into spiritguider mode tonight and found this ( for you ) :
******* You wait no more , you have an animal guide who loves you more already than you know. Yes , there is one guide for you - your DEER . KellKell your guide is a deer. That is what I see now - a stag- he is running alongside you in the forest trying to keep up with your windy ways ( heh ...you move fast , deer , and I have to run to catch a glimpse ) . But I will say , that to have a deer / protector is a fine thing - for one thing , you are never alone and he won't let you linger long when there is someplace to go . You know your energy comes from someplace , now you know Deer Wisdom for tonight .*******
There you go ! A spirit guide reading for you . -Mark

Thank you, Mark! =)

You know, the deer suits me. I feel very comfortable with it... if that makes any sense!

Interestingly enough, back in '95, I had a very close call with a deer while driving the canyon roads in Oak Creek Canyon, here in Az. It was late at night and my friend and I were driving back to our condo in the canyon. It's very dark in the canyon at night, even with headlights! I'd made a turn and *poof*, just a few feet in front of the car was a deer (a stag) - caught in the headlights, no less. I had to brake very quickly, but no one was hurt... but it sure gave my heart a start! We sat there for a few moments and the deer finally walked away..
Since then, I'd always thought how scary it would've been if I hadn't been able to brake in time, because I was driving a Mustang convertible and the deer would have been in our laps, I'm afraid. Yikes~!

So, how long have you been doing 'spiritguider' work? Is it a gift you've always had or did you have to open up to it? I'm sorry, I just don't know about how these things work, so please, no offense! ;-)

Kell

Mark, what you have said here is very moving, very special. Since Kell saw her Stag 7 years ago, and it wasn't until now that she recognizes his connection to her life... I think it is really special that she was actually able to reach back in her experiences, and actually verify having met her Stag. She told me about nearly hitting a deer soon after it happened. (If you hadn't picked up on it yet, Kell is my daughter.)

Anyway, Mark.... an awesome reading!!!!

I am kind of in a quandry, myself... I think I know who my Main Spirit Guide is, but how can I verify it... or find out more? I have not been contacted, or at least I don't remember any dreams like that or anything.

I also feel that I have a handful of other 'animal spirit helpers', or whatever they might be called. For instance, just a few days ago, I was able to summon a hummingbird to our back yard, simply via my thoughts. He was not there for the many flowers, but he landed on a wire high above the yard, and sat there for quite a while, as if waiting for something. I have never considered him to be one of my guides or helpers.... but is it possible that he is?

Mark, I know I have asked you alot of questions, and if you don't have time to cover them all, I understand. I am just so curious about all of this, and I have been for most all of my life.

Blessings,

azspirit =)

[ April 23, 2002: Message edited by: azspirit ]

Azspirit , I knew there was a connection - you and Kell - of some kind. Hey , you and I are about the same age fyi , maybe I'm older in years , but I get the feeling that you could have the info you seek if you ask for it regarding guidance and guides , animal spirit guides included. I'll see what I can find ... but until then , here's a great shaman site with the wisdom of many animals on it :
http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/4076/index1.html[/URL]
" OUR WISDOM IS STRONG AND WE ARE MANY
OUR WISDOM WILL APPEAR TO YOU BEFORE WE DO. " -animal spirit guides


http://hyla.cs.berkeley.edu/gifs/cats/teasle.sun.gif[/URL]

[ April 25, 2002: Message edited by: Mark ]

Mark,
I guess part of what I find confusing is that I hear people talking about their guides in human form, and then speaking of their animal guides that somehow seem to be considered minor, or merely supplemental, to the human guides.
Now, my confusion comes from what I perceive as a total lack of a human guide, and I have long considered the Horse to be my main animal guide. There have been times when I even feel that I become the horse. This has happened to me since early childhood. There are some other animals that seem to be my guides to a lesser extent than the Horse, which are the Eagle, the Hawk, and recently, the Hummingbird. (All birds except one... isn't that kind of odd?) If any of them have names, I don't know them. I guess I just wonder how to determine if I am on the right path, or if I am way off in my assumptions about my guides. (?)
Anyway, the biggest problem I have is in finding out if I am correct about these animals I have mentioned. This is why I asked you, to see if you came up with the same animals I did, just to check myself. I hope you didn't think I was 'testing' you.... that wasn't my intent. I just wanted your unadulterated impressions, without your having heard my thoughts about it first. I really didn't mean to be such a pest. I was just trying to discover if what I believe is true, or if I am off the track somewhere along the way. Thanks, anyway.

Blessings to you!

azspirit =D

Azspirit , ....Horse and Hawk - o.k.
you might look to see Mountain Lion sometime soon , and if you want , check out the site i posted above for info.
Birds too , as in " a little bird told me " . Heh...
But the people who say human guides are so far above the animals are mistaken. Let me explain what I mean to say , here : We humans , us , we could be said to be more spiritual than the animal spirit guides , but they are wiser than us. They can't act against their natures and we can and do - how smart is that ? It's because we have free choice but not the wisdom of the smallest animal ! Anyway , I'll have a reading for you soon , but meantime here's a true story , captured on film and written by yours truly--
Listening , the buck stood in the forest clearing as the Sun rose - casting cold light , but it was dark as only a pinery can be . He stood facing the direction from which they would be coming ...he had done this before.
An ear twitched , a sharp hoof dug through snow into the frozen dirt . Shaking his antlers once , he lowered his head...he was ready ! Then through the woods they emerged , running hard . Wolves ! Seven of them - and they were hunters . They stopped, though , as each saw this deer in their path who was not running , was not even moving except for the deep breaths he drew into his chest , for his muscles , for the battle.
A few tried to flank him , but as each took a step the buck set to charge and wolf backed away . THIS deer was behaving as an Alpha male wolf ! And as his herd ran in the opposite direction , to safety , this warrior stood alone - and his spirit flared , unafraid of these toothy things . At last the wolves had to move off , back the way they came . . . some seemed confused - others knew what had happened : this stag had used pure wolfpack tactics against them - Survival of the clan , all the time - no matter what.
When sure the wolves would not return , in one leap he was gone , running to join the rest of the herd.
Death would have none of them this morning.


copyright 2001 Bright Lights studios
Animals , like humans , can embody Universal Frequencies , like Courage ...I like to think he knew his strength - and did it for the glory in it. -Mark


[ April 25, 2002: Message edited by: Mark ]

[ April 25, 2002: Message edited by: Mark ]

That was cool, Mark - thanks for sharing it!!

Kell

Mark, that is a beautiful story about the Buck and the Wolves. A nice piece of writing, too!! I would really love to see the film. I'll bet it is awesome.
Thanks for the info about the Mountain Lion. This is one animal that I never really expected to be among my guides. That is a lovely revelation. They are a very special creature.
I have spent quite a bit of time out camping here in Arizona, and I have seen a couple of mountain lions in my wanderings, but not really face to face. One was reclining on a ledge of rocks, just looking around. He was above me quite a ways, and I couldn't see him really well, because of pine branches, etc., in between the cat and myself.
I have done considerable wild animal photography, with pictures of javelina, skunk, raccoon, ringtail, coati mundi, wild turkey, squirrel, chipmunk, and lots of birds. One of my favorite places to photograph animals is in the Chiricauhua Mountains in SE Arizona. I always hoped that I would see the 'black leopard' that a forest ranger had sighted while on horseback in the wilderness area of the mountain range. I talked to him about it, and in the sunlight, he said you could see his leopard spots! Gorgeous!! If you like birds, Cave Creek Canyon, on the East side of this mountain range has more species of birds than anywhere else on the North American Continent. People travel there from all over the world to 'birdwatch' The mountain range spans 7 life zones, and the amount and variety of wildlife is just awesome! It is a true 'island in the desert'.
I am rambling again.... but it is about some of my favorite things. Hopefully, with my new scanner, I can put some of these pictures up on our website. =)

Blessings,
azspirit

this has been a very interesting thread to which I have bee too tired to add to but I want to tell yall about a dream I had back in 1974.

First- I began to have dreams a long time ago before I ever heard about totems- but these dreams stayed with me all these years. I kneo that the redtail hawk is my life totem and that the wolf is a helper to me. I also have two shadow totems - spider and shark- that have come to me in dreams as well.

the dream I had in 1974 is finally meaning something to me.
I was on the beach at the outer banks of NC while a great hurricane was blowing in. suddenly i was in this very surreal eye of the storm. this eye was about50 feet in diameter and the sun shown down like a spotlight on me. i could see the black and grey clouds spinning aroudn the diamter. as i stood there- somewhat frightened i heard a soft male voice calling to me out in the breakers. I looked and there was a a big shark standing on his tail out of the water. He said "look down at your feet,it's all yours, all you have to do is pick it up". at my feet were the most incredible oyster shells encrusted with sparkling gems of a beauty and type I had never seen before. shining so brightly that they hurt my eyes. As i looked at them in amazement I heard the shark begin to laugh softly and watched him slowly sink beneath the waves. the dream ended there.

anyway- that's just one of the dreams but a very different sort of one.life certainly has been a hurricane for me- and I know that there is something within my grasp very shortly.

sundog

Sundog , I related a dream I had years ago to a shaman , and he said " If you remember a dream for that long - 20 years- it was probably a Big Dream ". That's a dream that has great significance to you in your life , over the years . Like a gift from Dreamsource , for use in seeing your path clear .
For fun , here's a gif :
http://www.mcjeff.com/animat/shark.gif[/URL]

Azspirit , I remembered to tell you - It's said an animal spirit guide may come to you as an animal at first , and later may appear in Human form . I'm thinking this is so , after seeing Wolf with glowing golden eyes one night , and later having a near-physical meeting with a most extrordinary female being whose eyes were also golden and glowing for the instant she looked sideways at me ... so . This would make sense , as usually the animal spirit guides , rather that speak , they act and you know what they are telling you by watching what they are doing . Now you can believe me when I say I won't lie to you , but if I would have heard this story a few years ago I would have laughed out loud :
I awoke one fine morning to see a wolf standing there in front of me . I was aware of the bedroom AND I knew that I had Wolf there in my sight , too. This is a story about when I first met Wolf. Anyway , I kept my wits about me , and asked telepathically , " Well, what do I do with Wolf as my Guide ?" and Wolf replied without missing a beat , " Hold onto my tail." And I awoke fully in bed - - - !
Later that day , I was sitting in my chair , thinking about nothing in particular , kind of casting about , letting the thoughts run , feeling kind of blah , and I remembered what had happened earlier ... so I reached out - this is not doing anything with my physical arm and hand , this is more like reaching and having the identical feeling of what it would feel like if I DID reach out my arm as if to grab something 3 feet away- but my physical arm stayed put on the arm of the recliner chair. O.k. I reached as I described , and when I closed my grip- there was the bushy tail of Wolf in my fist ! And in an instant I was taken mentally to a clearer place / state where I had a better sense of "viewing the day " . I found a shaman's site on the web where Nita Blackwolf teaches Rainbow Medicine - her own rendition of NA inspired shamanism - I posted my experience , saying " I guess I have been accepted into the pack " . Her reply was , " You have always been a part of the pack . Now you know the depth of your spirit. " By the way , when I had posted the above story about the deer and the wolves , later on I " saw" Wolf - standing up on his hind legs , smiling ( we've all seen canines smile , haven't we ? ) - and holding his front paws up and moving them like he was typing on a computer ! Heh... I do believe he thought that story was about HIM .
-Mark
><><><><=o=><><><><><

This is a really cool thread. =)

Sundog, I believe you were being told that treasures lay at your feet, you only just have to see them. I don't think it has anything to do with time. That the hurricane of your life doesn't have to be there. I think it is the same message that we all hear. That it's up to you to decide what you see, how you feel, what you do, how you percieve things. Was there anything about those shells that you may have forgotten to mention? Dreams are great that way. You may not notice little things or remember them but they are there. I tend to think that there is something more in those shells. That was a beautiful dream.

Thanks mark- I do have the feeling that it is a big dream. Now that I know more about totems I know that shrk is a shadow totem and also that I am very much like a shark from time to time- I am a survivalist of the highest (or lowest as the case may be)order. the spider is also a shadow totem for me. i dreamt once that a spider was on my open palm and it bit me and from the wound a beautiful lotus grew. I have always been afraid of my creativity- it is a very powerful force that I am still reluctant to ride upon. ah- it is just time to be engulfed by it and listen to mother spider.

My redtail came to me over 20 years ago. I dreamt I was crawling up a waxy cardboard tunnel- sliding back and regaining till I got to a flap door with my name and birthday written on it. I struggle out and as i stood a juvenile redtail lighted on my shoulder and told me he was my brother and would always be with me- and he has kept his promise. he always comes when things are changing- the lat time he flew in fromt of my windshield down the mountain I lived on in western NC!!! WOW!

As for my wolf- two came in a nightmare. I was in an old dirty farmhouse and a huge black featureless figure was attacking me. I looked out the window and saw a native man release two wolkves from a pen. they entered and kept the figure occupied and then I saw a bright shiny red axe in the corner and I took care of business right then and there. the wolves bought me the time I needed.

anyway those are my animal friend dreams. the other dreams are of tidal waves and they ALWAYS meanbig change- depending on the wave or color i know if it will be good or bad.

Nakis- the shells were Lion's paw oysters- the kind that look a lot like feet.............

Love yall- peace and blessings- sundog

Wow, those are some powerful dreams Sundog. In a reincarnation philosphy it sounds like you chose to explore some of the darker aspects of being this time around. We all need to know our dark aspects to be whole. And the growth that comes from being whole and knowing that wholeness.
Maybe to balance out previous experiences where you took your darker impulses farther (pirate, warrior, dungeon master, brigand, etc...).
=) =) =)

Nakis , heh , I laugh because you include warriors with " darker impulses " - Sundog is a warrior ...and so am I , for the times when acion is the only possible way to deal with the evil things. And they ain't our own "darksides" that attack us in conscious dreaming , but if we react with fear or hatred , they will have won the battle , that time. See , evil is that which would deny a person's free passage or right to be , without interference , to follow our path and protect our friends . Sundog did right when she clobbered that shadow , I've had similar battles , and I assure you , Nakis , as much as you'd like to live in a safe , love -and-light world , denying the existance of the Enemy , those mischievous and sometimes dangerous forces that would subvert man only makes their work easier , by making men unprepared to fight ( or run ) when appropriate during such an encounter. Above all HAVE NO FEAR .
Here's a Spirit Guide reading I took on topic, I do believe:
*******Greetings from the fold of sheep that never stray. Your actions are noble when they include the welfare of others as motive Prime. There are others who would contest this - ignore them - fools they are that say ' there is no way ' , like men who regard the day as an exposure of their folly , they wish to hide what they fear from others , and avoid dealing with it themselves. But there are times for this , when one acts being unlimited by past misconceptions - now is such a time. Abandon cares for your safety except in moments of real threat - there is no need to live in fear - fear is a reaction to what you think you don't know - your darkside if you will - but you do know it ... like a man or woman living nextdoor to unruly neighbors. They are of no concern to one who is intent upon helping others. When you are true in your heart you stay on your own property and are invisible to evil-doers ~ those mischief-makers , who only take notice when they think you are considering joining their ranks . Stay home - be well , do good , have a long life - use what you know along the way. -Abthiel / spirit guide*******
I began doing these readings 20 -some years ago, how I found out I could take these readings from spirit is another story , for another time. There is help available for those who would help others. Powerful help. http://www.spiritonline.com/gallery/sword.gif[/URL]
SUNDOG , Wolf been a guide to seers and shamans / it's cool to hear what you say here about how the 2 wolves harried the shadow , " buying you time " ~ Yeah ! -Mark

[ May 07, 2002: Message edited by: Mark ]