Forums · Man Dies After Being Beaten By Kids
I am absolutely shocked at this!!! This is just soooo ugly! How were these kids raised, that they would do something so gruesome?
Man Dies After Beating By Mob of KIDS!
Tuesday, October 1, 2002 Posted: 8:25 PM EDT (0025 GMT)
MILWAUKEE, Wisconsin (AP) -- A man savagely beaten with rakes, shovels and baseball bats by a child mob died Tuesday as authorities held nine youths in custody, and sought seven more.
The group of children, ages 10 to 18, attacked Charlie Young Jr. late Sunday after a fight that started when one of the children tossed an egg at him, police said.
Young, 36, suffered severe brain injuries and was hospitalized in critical condition after the attack. He died Tuesday, said Froedtert Memorial Lutheran Hospital spokesman Mark McLaughlin.
"It was unhuman what they did," the victim's brother, Keith Young, told WTMJ-TV.
Police Chief Arthur Jones said about 16 to 20 young men who had gathered Sunday night prodded a 10-year-old to throw an egg at Young. The egg hit the Milwaukee man in the shoulder, and he started chasing the boy. But a 14-year-old got between the two, and Young punched him, knocking out a tooth.
Several of the youths then banded together to attack Young, Jones said. They chased him onto the porch of a house on the city's north side and pummeled him, leaving blood spattered from floor to ceiling, police said.
Young managed to briefly escape into the house, but the mob dragged him back outside and beat him until police responded to a neighbor's 911 call, the landlord said.
Young apparently was a random victim, Jones said.
"We have no reason to believe they (the youths) knew this was Mr. Young or they targeted Mr. Young," Jones said.
The nine youths taken into custody likely will be charged Wednesday, Jones said, though he didn't know if they would be charged as adults or juveniles.
[ October 01, 2002, 11:51 PM: Message edited by: azspirit ]
Man Dies After Beating By Mob of KIDS!
Tuesday, October 1, 2002 Posted: 8:25 PM EDT (0025 GMT)
MILWAUKEE, Wisconsin (AP) -- A man savagely beaten with rakes, shovels and baseball bats by a child mob died Tuesday as authorities held nine youths in custody, and sought seven more.
The group of children, ages 10 to 18, attacked Charlie Young Jr. late Sunday after a fight that started when one of the children tossed an egg at him, police said.
Young, 36, suffered severe brain injuries and was hospitalized in critical condition after the attack. He died Tuesday, said Froedtert Memorial Lutheran Hospital spokesman Mark McLaughlin.
"It was unhuman what they did," the victim's brother, Keith Young, told WTMJ-TV.
Police Chief Arthur Jones said about 16 to 20 young men who had gathered Sunday night prodded a 10-year-old to throw an egg at Young. The egg hit the Milwaukee man in the shoulder, and he started chasing the boy. But a 14-year-old got between the two, and Young punched him, knocking out a tooth.
Several of the youths then banded together to attack Young, Jones said. They chased him onto the porch of a house on the city's north side and pummeled him, leaving blood spattered from floor to ceiling, police said.
Young managed to briefly escape into the house, but the mob dragged him back outside and beat him until police responded to a neighbor's 911 call, the landlord said.
Young apparently was a random victim, Jones said.
"We have no reason to believe they (the youths) knew this was Mr. Young or they targeted Mr. Young," Jones said.
The nine youths taken into custody likely will be charged Wednesday, Jones said, though he didn't know if they would be charged as adults or juveniles.
[ October 01, 2002, 11:51 PM: Message edited by: azspirit ]
The key to this is, these "children" HAVEN'T been raised.
I dealt with a lot of kids like this while I was teaching. I saw the pattern in each and every "problem student" that by the time they were 5 or 6, they were allowed to run their neighborhoods while their incompetent parents throw up their hands saying "I can't do anything with them."
I know a lot of folks blame the media, music, cultural disadvantages etc... But I don't buy it. Had these kids had parents who took the time to teach them right from wrong rather than setting the example of getting thrown in jail, drinking beer all night with their buddies while Jr. is trying to sleep, pawning the kid's bicycles so they've got their dope money, etc... these kids might have known not to beat an innocent man to death.
I hold the parents of these kids responsible for this man's death. Until people realize that it is a PARENT'S responsibility to teach values and morals to their children and not the responsibility of schools, other relatives, the media, etc... I predict things like this will only get worse. My heart goes out to this man's family, I can only imagine the heartache and anger they must feel.
I dealt with a lot of kids like this while I was teaching. I saw the pattern in each and every "problem student" that by the time they were 5 or 6, they were allowed to run their neighborhoods while their incompetent parents throw up their hands saying "I can't do anything with them."
I know a lot of folks blame the media, music, cultural disadvantages etc... But I don't buy it. Had these kids had parents who took the time to teach them right from wrong rather than setting the example of getting thrown in jail, drinking beer all night with their buddies while Jr. is trying to sleep, pawning the kid's bicycles so they've got their dope money, etc... these kids might have known not to beat an innocent man to death.
I hold the parents of these kids responsible for this man's death. Until people realize that it is a PARENT'S responsibility to teach values and morals to their children and not the responsibility of schools, other relatives, the media, etc... I predict things like this will only get worse. My heart goes out to this man's family, I can only imagine the heartache and anger they must feel.
You should have to pass a test of some sort in order to be able to reproduce, perhaps also have some q&a portion where you must give valid reasons as to why you think you are able to be a parent. I'm not perfect, far from it, however no child of mine would ever ever do that. I like to think I'm teaching my child better, you know just basic values and a few morals thrown in for good measure. Kid's need to be taught that life is not television and the character that got killed last night will not show up next week on another show.
Something very similiar happened here in Michigan recently, too. Beating people to death!? I mean, when I was kid, I'd get my kicks egging houses or throwing baggies of dog poop at cars....but smashing innocent pedestrians is a little extreme! kids nowdays...
![[Mad]](mad.gif)
"Beating Suspects in Court
Posted: 12/5/2002 3:43:00 PM
Three people accused of picking a victim at random then attacking him were in court today.
Jerry Steinberg was severly beaten in Wyoming last month, and died after being removed from life support systems.
The hearing was the first time the extent of Jerry Steinberg's injuries was discussed, the first time the victim's family saw the suspects face to face, and the first time a witness police say was at the scene of the crime spoke publicly. The description of Jerry Steinbergs injuries was at times too much for his mother to take .. but she says she had to know.
"I don't see any remorse, I got a picture that they abused my sone like a dead dog, that they played with his body," says Diane Avery.
What she says is worse, "...the smirking was too much they just wouldn't make eye contact."
She and her family sat at the preliminary hearing for 24 year old Brain Davidson .. 18 year old Michael Emery and 16 year old Natasha Toothman.
They sat and found out first hand from witnesses what happened to their son the night he was allegedly beaten repeatedly and left to die.
One witness was an 18 year old girl police say was also in the car but did not take part in the alleged beating.
"The next day I had asked Michael and he said he had hit him with a beer bottle 6 or 7 times and it didn't break so he threw it," said witness Krystyne Kiogima.
The Medical Examiner's testimony described just how badly Steinberg was hurt .. equating his injuries to those he would see in a car crash.
But the M.E. says in this case it was from the alleged punching kicking or stomping of Steinberg.
The hearing will be continued on December 18-th .. there are still a few more witnesses who need to testify."
Poor, poor guy...![[Confused]](confused.gif)
"Beating Suspects in Court
Posted: 12/5/2002 3:43:00 PM
Three people accused of picking a victim at random then attacking him were in court today.
Jerry Steinberg was severly beaten in Wyoming last month, and died after being removed from life support systems.
The hearing was the first time the extent of Jerry Steinberg's injuries was discussed, the first time the victim's family saw the suspects face to face, and the first time a witness police say was at the scene of the crime spoke publicly. The description of Jerry Steinbergs injuries was at times too much for his mother to take .. but she says she had to know.
"I don't see any remorse, I got a picture that they abused my sone like a dead dog, that they played with his body," says Diane Avery.
What she says is worse, "...the smirking was too much they just wouldn't make eye contact."
She and her family sat at the preliminary hearing for 24 year old Brain Davidson .. 18 year old Michael Emery and 16 year old Natasha Toothman.
They sat and found out first hand from witnesses what happened to their son the night he was allegedly beaten repeatedly and left to die.
One witness was an 18 year old girl police say was also in the car but did not take part in the alleged beating.
"The next day I had asked Michael and he said he had hit him with a beer bottle 6 or 7 times and it didn't break so he threw it," said witness Krystyne Kiogima.
The Medical Examiner's testimony described just how badly Steinberg was hurt .. equating his injuries to those he would see in a car crash.
But the M.E. says in this case it was from the alleged punching kicking or stomping of Steinberg.
The hearing will be continued on December 18-th .. there are still a few more witnesses who need to testify."
Poor, poor guy...
That's just so sad. I just cannot imagine being that callous to another human being. Here in the town I live in over the weekend 2 adults and a 13 yr old girl were arrested for the beating of a homeless man. From what the newspaper says he remains in critical condition. Here is what completely shocked me, the 13 yr old is the daughter of one of the adults. What kind of person is her mom???
I just don't understand this at all, and it isn't because I didn't try. What kind of nightmarish monsters are parents raising these days? There just seems to be more and more kids showing up with a killer mentality, and for some unknown reason, they are totally devoid of compassion for a fellow human being. That was just awful, Scott! That poor guy probably didn't have a chance of defending himself. If people don't like another person, why can't they just turn and walk away?? And, worse than that, why on earth would they pick a random victim and kill him in such a cruel way... without ever having met him before their attack? That is nothing but meanness and cruelty just for the sake of being mean and cruel. What are the good people ever going to do to quash this kind of behavior? I have absolutely no ideas....
This is horrible.
In NZ:
Last year three teenagers attacked a guy with a broomstick. Due to the nature of the attack I won't go into too much detail, but I'll let you imagine what they did to this kid. He wasn't beaten up, but he was scarred and ruined for life.
A 13 year old recently made the youngest murder convict in this country.
I believe the problem isn't always the parents, but the fact that many parents have had their right to discipline their children taken from them.
I don't remember things like this happening in the 80's. But now, kids are becoming the cruel predators our parents used to warn us about as youngsters.
Why? I believe they're missing structure and discipline. At one time you had the right to discipline your child as you saw fit (this doesn't mean abuse), now a child can threaten you if you lay a hand on them.
Can I ask an honest question? Of those who grew up where a smack on the backside was ok, who feels emotionally scarred from it? Not me.
Not all kids will respond to a strong voice or time out. Some kids need more than that and here's what I think.
What is worse, a child being electrocuted as he puts his fingers in the light socket or a child being smacked on the hand so he doesn't do it.
Negative reinforcement. Some children just know when their parents tell them NO, others push the boundaries even after they've been told they could get hurt.
"Spare the rod and spoil the child". It doesn't mean abuse, it means discipline and structuring a kids life.
I believe this is why we're seeing so much in the way of youth violence. And we can't always blame the parents if they try everything they can within the law to cope with children but it doesn't work.
This time, I feel I can blame what is happening amongst children on the 'system'.
There is no excuse for what these children do, and they should know the difference between right and wrong, yet they're killing each other at school, killing other people and generally committing crimes you wouldn't expect. Kids have been given TOO MANY rights. They can't cope with it. They need to be shown how to live before they can make the decisions and know what's best for their lives.
So if it's not lack of discipline, then what is it?
[ December 10, 2002, 12:10 PM: Message edited by: Lefora ]
In NZ:
Last year three teenagers attacked a guy with a broomstick. Due to the nature of the attack I won't go into too much detail, but I'll let you imagine what they did to this kid. He wasn't beaten up, but he was scarred and ruined for life.
A 13 year old recently made the youngest murder convict in this country.
I believe the problem isn't always the parents, but the fact that many parents have had their right to discipline their children taken from them.
I don't remember things like this happening in the 80's. But now, kids are becoming the cruel predators our parents used to warn us about as youngsters.
Why? I believe they're missing structure and discipline. At one time you had the right to discipline your child as you saw fit (this doesn't mean abuse), now a child can threaten you if you lay a hand on them.
Can I ask an honest question? Of those who grew up where a smack on the backside was ok, who feels emotionally scarred from it? Not me.
Not all kids will respond to a strong voice or time out. Some kids need more than that and here's what I think.
What is worse, a child being electrocuted as he puts his fingers in the light socket or a child being smacked on the hand so he doesn't do it.
Negative reinforcement. Some children just know when their parents tell them NO, others push the boundaries even after they've been told they could get hurt.
"Spare the rod and spoil the child". It doesn't mean abuse, it means discipline and structuring a kids life.
I believe this is why we're seeing so much in the way of youth violence. And we can't always blame the parents if they try everything they can within the law to cope with children but it doesn't work.
This time, I feel I can blame what is happening amongst children on the 'system'.
There is no excuse for what these children do, and they should know the difference between right and wrong, yet they're killing each other at school, killing other people and generally committing crimes you wouldn't expect. Kids have been given TOO MANY rights. They can't cope with it. They need to be shown how to live before they can make the decisions and know what's best for their lives.
So if it's not lack of discipline, then what is it?
[ December 10, 2002, 12:10 PM: Message edited by: Lefora ]
:::steps onto her soapbox:::
Parents have GOT to start paying attention to what their children are doing every second, who they are with, what they watch on television and just as importantly those bleeping vicious, bloody, horribly violent video games! These things are absolutely numbing our children to violence.
Sadly, I've watched my nephews with some of these games and they sit there bleary-eyed nonchalantly watching these bloody graphics....beating people, murdering, stealing, buying hookers and the list goes on and on. If I say something they just roll their eyes and laugh![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
I know this alone is not the only problem, but as you see more violence on television and in video games what else can we expect??
Parents have GOT to start paying attention to what their children are doing every second, who they are with, what they watch on television and just as importantly those bleeping vicious, bloody, horribly violent video games! These things are absolutely numbing our children to violence.
Sadly, I've watched my nephews with some of these games and they sit there bleary-eyed nonchalantly watching these bloody graphics....beating people, murdering, stealing, buying hookers and the list goes on and on. If I say something they just roll their eyes and laugh
I know this alone is not the only problem, but as you see more violence on television and in video games what else can we expect??
Something does have to give here, and I don't think that we can cure this problem overnight. I have encountered so many young adults who don't even want children, just because of the dreadful things kids are doing these days.
Just today, I heard that 2 little 8YO third graders were caught at school with 15 bags of marijuana... and the school principal is more interested in protecting her own reputation than she is in doing something to keep this from happening again. On top of hearing this, I also heard about a 4-year-old preschooler gave his teacher a bag of marijuana as a gift!!!
What will it take to wake people up??? Where did the 4-year-old get this??? I would be willing to bet that it was taken from the stash at home... and mom or dad are probably gonna be mad, not at the fact that the child got into illegal drugs, but angry with the kid for taking their weed!! This child must have learned somewhere that marijuana was something that people placed value on, and that it might make a nice gift for someone.
It is time for parents to start doing something about getting laws changed so that children can be effectively disciplined (not abused to the point of bruising, bleeding or broken bones- THAT is totally wrong, and should remain as such). A good sound slap on the butt with an open hand works fine.
When we blame the system, we have to blame ourselves at least partially, for the election of officials that we have put in office who helped make these laws. People who don't vote are also a part of this, because they didn't go to the polls to at least vote against the bad apples who run for office in their area. We are all going to have to investigate the candidates history and their views before they are voted into office. Poor candidates make even poorer laws. Those poor laws are the ones that are taking away a parent's methods for correcting bad behavior in a child, and leaving the job for the police when the kid finally gets old enough or far enough out of hand that they do things like murder, steal, drugs, destroying/defacing property, and anything else that they can find to act out their problems. So many of these kids simply do these things because they think they are untouchable. When they can make people fear them, then they can have their way.... it is all just too simple.
Sorry about being on my soapbox... but, hey... we all have to band together if we are ever going to straighten out the mess with our ever younger criminals. It is flat scary.![[Shock]](graemlins/shock.gif)
Anyway, those are my thoughts.... I do so wish there was an easy solution, but I am afraid there isn't.
::hopping off my soapbox now::
Just today, I heard that 2 little 8YO third graders were caught at school with 15 bags of marijuana... and the school principal is more interested in protecting her own reputation than she is in doing something to keep this from happening again. On top of hearing this, I also heard about a 4-year-old preschooler gave his teacher a bag of marijuana as a gift!!!
What will it take to wake people up??? Where did the 4-year-old get this??? I would be willing to bet that it was taken from the stash at home... and mom or dad are probably gonna be mad, not at the fact that the child got into illegal drugs, but angry with the kid for taking their weed!! This child must have learned somewhere that marijuana was something that people placed value on, and that it might make a nice gift for someone.
It is time for parents to start doing something about getting laws changed so that children can be effectively disciplined (not abused to the point of bruising, bleeding or broken bones- THAT is totally wrong, and should remain as such). A good sound slap on the butt with an open hand works fine.
When we blame the system, we have to blame ourselves at least partially, for the election of officials that we have put in office who helped make these laws. People who don't vote are also a part of this, because they didn't go to the polls to at least vote against the bad apples who run for office in their area. We are all going to have to investigate the candidates history and their views before they are voted into office. Poor candidates make even poorer laws. Those poor laws are the ones that are taking away a parent's methods for correcting bad behavior in a child, and leaving the job for the police when the kid finally gets old enough or far enough out of hand that they do things like murder, steal, drugs, destroying/defacing property, and anything else that they can find to act out their problems. So many of these kids simply do these things because they think they are untouchable. When they can make people fear them, then they can have their way.... it is all just too simple.
Sorry about being on my soapbox... but, hey... we all have to band together if we are ever going to straighten out the mess with our ever younger criminals. It is flat scary.
Anyway, those are my thoughts.... I do so wish there was an easy solution, but I am afraid there isn't.
::hopping off my soapbox now::
I don't believe anyone is 'on the soap box'. I think everyone is pointing out the obvious and that is...all this anti-abuse protesting went to extremes ..to the point the kids are now abusing us.
I'm not a parent, but Mare, I must agree, I'm not sure I would want to be a parent if I get jailed every time I have to discipline my child with a smack on the butt.
Children should have rights, but they've got too many they can't handle them. And the line between abuse and discipline has been blurred so much I think a lot of parents are scared to raise a hand to their child, when sometimes that may be the only thing that works. Granted, it doesn't always work and it's not always needed, but the parents don't have the choice to see what works for their child.
I still can't believe a 4 year old gave a teacher weed?! What the hang is this world coming to?
I'm not a parent, but Mare, I must agree, I'm not sure I would want to be a parent if I get jailed every time I have to discipline my child with a smack on the butt.
Children should have rights, but they've got too many they can't handle them. And the line between abuse and discipline has been blurred so much I think a lot of parents are scared to raise a hand to their child, when sometimes that may be the only thing that works. Granted, it doesn't always work and it's not always needed, but the parents don't have the choice to see what works for their child.
I still can't believe a 4 year old gave a teacher weed?! What the hang is this world coming to?
I agree, Lefora, the lines have been blurred so badly, kids are now abusing us. I'm not a mother, and anymore, I'm not so sure I want to be! Sad, isn't it? A smack on the behind when I was a kid didn't scar me, and I hardly think it should scar kids today. I guess the only concern are those parents that don't take into account their own strength and really do damage when they hit. That isn't good, but I think parents should be able to spank (as previously mentioned - not to the point their arses fall off).
Aaaaaaahhhhh... it's all so frustrating.![[Pooper]](graemlins/poop.gif)
There is a difference between discipline and abuse. Why the laws don't reflect that is anyone's guess...
Kell
Aaaaaaahhhhh... it's all so frustrating.
There is a difference between discipline and abuse. Why the laws don't reflect that is anyone's guess...Kell
I agree folks. I'm not a huge advocate of corporal punishment, but it does have its time and place. I believe it completely depends on the child and the circumstances, and some kids speak no other language than a swat on the behind to straighten them out. I was one of those little kids that if anyone looked at me harshly I broke into blubbering tears. On the other hand, I've seen kids that you could reason with, talk to, put in time out, until you were blue in the face and they would still go back to doing the same thing just to show you they could. Those are the ones who benefit from a swat to their back side!
As for the four year old bringing the marijuana -- I have seen kids at that age discuss "bongs", "roaches" (not the kind that scurry on six legs), Dad's mysterious, "trips to Mexico", "hiding in the woods from the cops" etc... Nothing surprises me anymore. Always lead a clean life, folks, because I guarantee your kindergartener will discuss it at school!![[Laughing]](graemlins/lol.gif)
The last year I taught, I was teaching Jr. High special ed. One of the kids was a six grader, mid year brought his parent's stash of weed to school to sale to another kid. Just like Mare said, the parents were not angry that the child had exposed himself to drugs, they were angry that he had got into their stash.
I had talked to the mother of another child (the one who bought the dope) the year before, that I was concerned that he may have been using drugs. She fell against the brick wall with a shocked expression on her face and said, "Not 'so and so', how did he get into my stuff?!"
Things are just getting worse, and until people straighten up their own lives, they can't expect the kids to do any better. I agree with Cindy, if you are going to raise a child with any degree of success, you are going to have to know where he is at all times, who his friends are, what he is doing in his spare time, and constantly be on the lookout for anything out of the ordinary. The freedoms most of us enjoyed as kids cannot be enjoyed by our children.![[Sad]](frown.gif)
As for the four year old bringing the marijuana -- I have seen kids at that age discuss "bongs", "roaches" (not the kind that scurry on six legs), Dad's mysterious, "trips to Mexico", "hiding in the woods from the cops" etc... Nothing surprises me anymore. Always lead a clean life, folks, because I guarantee your kindergartener will discuss it at school!
The last year I taught, I was teaching Jr. High special ed. One of the kids was a six grader, mid year brought his parent's stash of weed to school to sale to another kid. Just like Mare said, the parents were not angry that the child had exposed himself to drugs, they were angry that he had got into their stash.
I had talked to the mother of another child (the one who bought the dope) the year before, that I was concerned that he may have been using drugs. She fell against the brick wall with a shocked expression on her face and said, "Not 'so and so', how did he get into my stuff?!"
Things are just getting worse, and until people straighten up their own lives, they can't expect the kids to do any better. I agree with Cindy, if you are going to raise a child with any degree of success, you are going to have to know where he is at all times, who his friends are, what he is doing in his spare time, and constantly be on the lookout for anything out of the ordinary. The freedoms most of us enjoyed as kids cannot be enjoyed by our children.
:: coughing and clearing throat..stepping on soapbox::
I must have missed this post back in October and so I'm addressing the subject a little "late"![[Embarrassed]](redface.gif)
, nevertheless, I agree with both Leffie and Cindy...much of what is happening to today's youth is based on the laws that are now in place which have been designed to protect the children subsequently taking away authority from the parents, as well as the video games and violent movies...heck! the 5 o'clock news is even gruesome at times! And cartoons! OMG! We actually find it "funny" when the cat chasing the mouse gets a frying pan upside the head and goes bouncing off higglyjiggly with drumrolls in the background?! C'mon! So much of what we see on TV is either violent or sexually offensive: I was watching "Cedric the Entertainer" last night. There was a skit about two bears in the woods who happened to be watching some pretty women having their pictures taken. The bears talking to each other about the women was off the hook! " I want to have sexual intercourse with that one, so and so" "Yeah, I know what you mean they really get me worked up, so and so".... ![[Eek! 2]](graemlins/eek2.gif)
followed by a series of other off colored remarks about the women. A a total lack of respect!
I must have missed this post back in October and so I'm addressing the subject a little "late"
, nevertheless, I agree with both Leffie and Cindy...much of what is happening to today's youth is based on the laws that are now in place which have been designed to protect the children subsequently taking away authority from the parents, as well as the video games and violent movies...heck! the 5 o'clock news is even gruesome at times! And cartoons! OMG! We actually find it "funny" when the cat chasing the mouse gets a frying pan upside the head and goes bouncing off higglyjiggly with drumrolls in the background?! C'mon! So much of what we see on TV is either violent or sexually offensive: I was watching "Cedric the Entertainer" last night. There was a skit about two bears in the woods who happened to be watching some pretty women having their pictures taken. The bears talking to each other about the women was off the hook! " I want to have sexual intercourse with that one, so and so" "Yeah, I know what you mean they really get me worked up, so and so".... followed by a series of other off colored remarks about the women. A a total lack of respect! quote:
MissGrrl,
Hey, kiddo!! I am sorry if I stepped on your toes about the voting thing. I really meant no animosity toward anyone who chooses not to vote. It is an individual choice. But, I want you, and everyone, to know that I didn't mean to imply that voting was the ONLY cure for the problem. It isn't. It is just one of a gazillion things that we must do to make our voices heard!!
MissGrrl, you make alot of good points! We have to be alot more vocal about our government, and the way that it is insidiously creeping further and further into our lives, how we raise our children, our homes, and even our bedrooms. This is eating away at the very heart of our nation.... the family unit! As an end product of the government intervention, we have too many of the kids becoming a separate society of angry, destructive and lethal leeches on our society. MissGrrl, I applaud your efforts to raise your boys with some scruples, and some respect for others around them. I wish alot more parents were like you!!!
In the meantime, we must all look for ways to join our voices together, and let all of the powers that be know that we aren't satisfied, and we want something done about letting parents make the choices for their own children!! I certainly don't mean abuse being used as a corrective measure, but a well spanked butt might go a long way!!!
Just yesterday, my husband was in a store, and a lady had about a 2-3 year old in her cart. The kid reached out and slapped her in the face, knocking off her glasses. Bill said you could tell that this woman was really wanting to somehow punish this child for this behavior, but she did nothing. This kid needed to be slapped, or something.
My mother used to use a very effective method for keeping my brother (8 years younger than I) in line in public... she would either thump him on the head with that powerful middle finger (ouch!) or, she would 'make the turkey peek over the log', by grasping a bit of hair at the base of the skull, and pulling upward. He did look like a turkey peeking over a log when she did this to him. It got his attention!! But, these methods were never responsible for any real damage, except a bruised ego!!! It got to where she could just ask him if he wanted to see how the turkey peeked over the log, and he would stop doing whatever it was that he was doing, and she didn't even need to touch him. LMAO
I do hope that somehow we can all find some solutions to turning this trend around. It has to start with parents. Many are not doing their jobs at all... and don't even care where the kids are, and who they are with. There are many more who are too afraid to punish their children at all because of the laws. This has to change!!
I still love ya, MissGrrl!!
![[Big Grin]](graemlins/grinner.gif)
[ December 12, 2002, 04:08 PM: Message edited by: azspirit ]
Hey, kiddo!! I am sorry if I stepped on your toes about the voting thing. I really meant no animosity toward anyone who chooses not to vote. It is an individual choice. But, I want you, and everyone, to know that I didn't mean to imply that voting was the ONLY cure for the problem. It isn't. It is just one of a gazillion things that we must do to make our voices heard!!
MissGrrl, you make alot of good points! We have to be alot more vocal about our government, and the way that it is insidiously creeping further and further into our lives, how we raise our children, our homes, and even our bedrooms. This is eating away at the very heart of our nation.... the family unit! As an end product of the government intervention, we have too many of the kids becoming a separate society of angry, destructive and lethal leeches on our society. MissGrrl, I applaud your efforts to raise your boys with some scruples, and some respect for others around them. I wish alot more parents were like you!!!
In the meantime, we must all look for ways to join our voices together, and let all of the powers that be know that we aren't satisfied, and we want something done about letting parents make the choices for their own children!! I certainly don't mean abuse being used as a corrective measure, but a well spanked butt might go a long way!!!
Just yesterday, my husband was in a store, and a lady had about a 2-3 year old in her cart. The kid reached out and slapped her in the face, knocking off her glasses. Bill said you could tell that this woman was really wanting to somehow punish this child for this behavior, but she did nothing. This kid needed to be slapped, or something.
My mother used to use a very effective method for keeping my brother (8 years younger than I) in line in public... she would either thump him on the head with that powerful middle finger (ouch!) or, she would 'make the turkey peek over the log', by grasping a bit of hair at the base of the skull, and pulling upward. He did look like a turkey peeking over a log when she did this to him. It got his attention!! But, these methods were never responsible for any real damage, except a bruised ego!!! It got to where she could just ask him if he wanted to see how the turkey peeked over the log, and he would stop doing whatever it was that he was doing, and she didn't even need to touch him. LMAO
I do hope that somehow we can all find some solutions to turning this trend around. It has to start with parents. Many are not doing their jobs at all... and don't even care where the kids are, and who they are with. There are many more who are too afraid to punish their children at all because of the laws. This has to change!!
I still love ya, MissGrrl!!
[ December 12, 2002, 04:08 PM: Message edited by: azspirit ]
Mare, no offense was taken.... that's the really cool thing about this board and everyone who posts to it: we can say what we feel in our hearts and not worry about offending anyone. We're all adults ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
My toes are fine....didn't I tell you? I have "steel" toes! Basically, in the end, you and I and everyone else is saying the same thing which, I believe is, "Enough is enough!" Something has to be done on many levels and I believe that if parents and regular joes alike unite and take back the control, then it's big huge start in the right direction. I think we see the government as the big bully and have become afraid to stand up for ouselves and for what we believe to be right when it comes to, like you said: our lives, our children and even our bedrooms.
Mare, you mom sounds like my dad. I used to get that same thump with the same strong middle finger and boy oh boy does that get a kids' attention! I do that sometimes to but,alas, my kids have discovered that they are faster then old mom and have learned to duck and cover before I even bend that finger I guess I'll have to go back to the drawing board and find a new way of doing it. I have a friend who actually BITES her daughter's nose when in public. Not enough to draw blood but enough to cause tears....lemme tell ya, her daughter only had to get her nose bitten once before she learned that her mom meant business. I do think that's a bit extreme but I guess every parent has their own method of discrete public discipline. ![[Oh Well]](graemlins/ohwell.gif)
We're cool, Mare. You could never say anythig to hurt my feelings.....well maybe if you said I was fat ugly and that my mother dressed me funny...maybe THEN I might have hurt feelings, but I know you haven't a mean or rude bone in your body!
My toes are fine....didn't I tell you? I have "steel" toes! Basically, in the end, you and I and everyone else is saying the same thing which, I believe is, "Enough is enough!" Something has to be done on many levels and I believe that if parents and regular joes alike unite and take back the control, then it's big huge start in the right direction. I think we see the government as the big bully and have become afraid to stand up for ouselves and for what we believe to be right when it comes to, like you said: our lives, our children and even our bedrooms.Mare, you mom sounds like my dad. I used to get that same thump with the same strong middle finger and boy oh boy does that get a kids' attention! I do that sometimes to but,alas, my kids have discovered that they are faster then old mom and have learned to duck and cover before I even bend that finger
I guess I'll have to go back to the drawing board and find a new way of doing it. I have a friend who actually BITES her daughter's nose when in public. Not enough to draw blood but enough to cause tears....lemme tell ya, her daughter only had to get her nose bitten once before she learned that her mom meant business. I do think that's a bit extreme but I guess every parent has their own method of discrete public discipline. We're cool, Mare. You could never say anythig to hurt my feelings.....well maybe if you said I was fat ugly and that my mother dressed me funny...maybe THEN I might have hurt feelings, but I know you haven't a mean or rude bone in your body!
![[Razz]](tongue1.gif)
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